Talk:Espada (Gravity Force)

Come to think of it
Allright.. I'm not completely sure how this works, but wouldn't the majority of these Espada be dead in Generation Two? Njalm2 16:54, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

No not really. There was no need for any of them to die as no major conflicts have happened yet. As most of the GF are stil in the Intro arc leading up to the Soul Society Arc. RozeluxeMeitzen 16:57, April 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the collective arcs the GF had planned kinda flew out the nearest window and to hell in a hand basket besides. You know... I've got a nice idea that I'll post on the actual Bleach (Gravity Force) talk page. Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 17:02, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

Numeros
As the title says, I reckon we need a few of them. Look how much cannon fodder Aizen had throughout the actual Bleach series to carry out all his little plans that annoyed us all. It'd make the Espada that much more believable as a group. We've got fraccion which are Numeros, but I'm talking a few like, say, and  who don't actually serve one of the Espada and can act with more freedom. Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 17:56, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

I can knock out the canon numeros for some fodder...in fact I'll get onto that right now lol RozeluxeMeitzen 23:14, April 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Good man, Raze! Truth be told, I wasn't expecting you to use Rudobōn, but he'll give us all the cannon fodder we need lol. Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 11:12, April 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Hahaha Come now Ken, since when have I EVER done what someone has expected of me? lol RozeluxeMeitzen 13:37, April 8, 2011 (UTC)


 * Never lol. Kenji-Taichō (Talk) 13:50, April 8, 2011 (UTC)

7th Espada Slot
I removed Zenmetsu from the position because his true allegiance has been shown to be with the Collective Vices and Averian. Anyone wanting the free position, then fire away! Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  13:58, April 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've long wanted to try to make an Arrancar character - I'd be happy to snatch the position if no-one else wants it! Njalm2 14:08, April 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * By all means, Njalm. Go right ahead, dude :) Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  14:10, April 19, 2011 (UTC)

To The Rest of the Gravity Force
Hey guys, we had Griz's ban and Hitsuke's withdrawal so there are some vacancies for the spada so I was wondering if some of you would be willing to fill them in =) Raze Kucabara-Dono  Light  22:09, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Well, fortunately...no, unfortunately...no...well...it just so happens that I am in the midst of making an Espada myself. I was prepared to make them a former, but an active is also nice. I'd like to apply for the Cuatra spot if possible. Also, for this Espada, I planned on making this one the the strongest of their type, as a way of sprucing up the differences between some of the Espada, aside from who has the higher power level. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 22:31, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Sure. That works, I can't wait to see what you come up with pal =) Raze Kucabara-Dono  Light  22:48, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Me neither, I'm curious as to what your take on the role of Espada would be. And it'd work for me if you made your character like that, I don't really mind at all. A characters "power" ain't what is important. Njalm2 22:51, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Can I reserve a spot? ^^

Sure pal. Just put your name in th location that you wanted =) Raze Kucabara-Dono  Light  23:51, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

A Recent Complication
Right, given how Soifon left us, I'm uncertain of what we'd ought to do with these Espada, as since their leader. G, is a character owned by the guy in question. So, how do we fix this tiny problem of ours, may I ask? Njalm2 14:30, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * For once our past organizational problems in regards to punching out story arcs the entire GF contribute to have become a blessing in disguise :P The Espada as a group, alongside their leader, have had little actual portrayal in story-line events that I'm aware of. It wouldn't be hard to replace the leader like we've done with the Gotei 13's Head-Captain. We can easily change up a few names in the Espada page to signify the change in leadership, and move on from there; or we could keep it with G himself, since Hitsuke did leave his work to Raze, Lone, Fire and myself before he left. I don't mind either way, but a fresh direction might be more exciting, no? Kenji-Taichō (Talk)  14:35, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree, and it would allow another member to try his luck as "Supreme Evil Commander" - besides, it makes alot of sense given how the majority of the Espada have changed drastically over the past few weeks. The leader should probably go with the flow no? Njalm2 14:48, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * It makes sense after all. More than half the current Espada never actually met G, as all the others, my Zenmetsu included, either defected or revealed their true allegiance, or were removed from the list when Hitsuke himself left. If anyone wants the post of evil commander of the Espada, your welcome to it in my opinion. Kenji-Taichō <font color="FireBrick">(Talk)  14:59, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Specializations
Alright, I think we ought to give the various Espada Specailizations for the purpose of adding depth, and realism to each of the individuals, this would also make each of them more valuable as Espada, and not simply cannon fodder for the higher-ranked Espada in question. It is after all quite anti-climatic that each of the Espada from 10-0 have basically only different releases, and power-levels. And thus I suggest the following, that each of us request something which their Espada character would be better than the rest at. And leave the numbering strictly based on their levels of Spiritual Power.

Njalm2 14:43, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Its a nice idea, and lends more focus than a simple aspect of death said Espada represent or aspire to. Nnoitora had the self-proclaimed strongest Hierro for example, so something along those lines, right? <font color="FireBrick">Kenji-Taichō <font color="FireBrick">(Talk)  15:05, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Exactly, and Zommari had the fastest Sonido, at least that is what he said himself - though given the fact that he was the only Espada to be capable of using Gemelos Sonido, it was very likely a well justified and perhaps even accurate proclamation. I'd like for my own Alejandro to be especially adept at Ceros of different kinds, given the fact that he pretty much "Collects" them. Other than the fact that he is the only Espada at this point whom is capable of using Kido (Simply due to the fact that I'm completely and utterly unable to be without that). Njalm2 15:09, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

I like this idea N. =D Hmm...well so far out of mine....Zeliel has the best regen (Ha! Hidden FF reference) ability, Ruiko well...she's a visored =p And I'm probably gonna demote Reneros that way someone else can have a slot as well =) <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  18:25, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Its a good idea. Though I'm having a bit of problem creating my Espada. Their potential seems to proportionate to three factors; 1) spiritual power before death 2) the circumstances that killed them 3) magnitude of the despair/aspect of death they felt either before, upon and after their death. If either of you have any idea's I'd be glad to hear em. I'm smitten with the aspect of death "Sacrifice", but not quite sure how to implement it power/ability wise. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 18:31, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm...well Idk if you want my take on it but here goes....well if you want sacrifice, how about a reflective damage type ability similar to Hidan from Naruto?. But the catch is your character would still feel the damage but would cause the opponent to take twice as much damage. For example, your espada slashes its arm about 1/4 of the way, the opponent's arm would be slashed through about 1/2 way. But if the opponent damages you that dmage isnt reflected at all. Hmmthough you could always get rid of that last part...hope that helped =) <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  18:39, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * Eumm, if it's not a problem I'd like to throw in my own two cents in as well, even though I don't really have anything to do with this page... Well, anyways, I've thought about powers concerning "sacrifice" as well, and since I strolled across this conversation, I might as well throw it in since I'm probably never gonna use it anymore. Since sacrifice concerns with "giving up something", the aspect of sacrifice might entail that either the victim has to give up on one of his powers or something similar. Yet since, sacrifice was always used to "please the gods", maybe the user could give up one if his powers as well so he might receive a greater ability sometime later, a so-called "gift of the gods". Feel free to use this idea or not, and I'm sorry if I interrupted this conversation I've got actually nothing to do with... Kai  -  Talk  18:54, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Raze, Kai, thank you both for the ideas, with this I think I've got something to work with. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 19:02, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * If I may lend an idea... instead of something like the aspects of death, which would only succeed in making this Espada become just a carbon copy of the canon Espada. How about, since Espada means "sword" or "ten swords" in the japanese sense, why not have each Espada specialize in a specific type of swordfighting, ranging from Kendō to fencing style and etc. Just a thought. You could assign names like "Kendō Master, [Insert Name]" or "Fencing Gentleman, [insert name]" I dunno, those are just two random titles. It's sort of inspired by the names stated during the Brethren Court in PotC: World's End. --Seireitou-shishō [[File:Seireitou's signature picture.jpg]] (My True Identity 19:23, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm liking that idea alot as well. Hmm....that will require more research into different swordplay. Oh well...I just got off work so I got plenty of time before I have to go back on friday lol. Well I will get started on that for my characters now then. Btw...I soooo call Fencing. I already have some personal experience in it so it'll be easy for me. =P <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  19:51, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Originally I had wanted to use "types" in a similar fashion to the types of Zanpakutou that exist, only for Hollows. Canon has proven that Hollows are a varied bunch, each possessing their own unique powers and abilities. It wouldnt be farfetched to say that some Arrancar are considered the strongest "X-elemental type" of their kind, Magician, Swordsman, perhaps even archetypes such as offensive or defensive. It would certaintly add a bit more depth to Hollows if authors expanded on their individual abilities aside from their basic Hollow/Arrancar ones. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 20:47, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Swordstyle Specialization
If you do decide to use this concept, then I have noted ten types of weapon fighting from various countries of origin:
 * Kendō (you guys should know this one)
 * Iaidō (known also as Battōjutsu)
 * Eskrima (Filipino style swordsfighting)
 * Fencing (I recommend "Destreza", the spanish system of fencing, for an Espada)
 * Sōjutsu (spear fighting, meaning "art of the spear")
 * Naginatajutsu (art of wielding a naginata; for those of you who don't know what that is, it's basically a spear with both ends being blades, more or less)
 * Mau Rākau (meaning "to bear a weapon", uses weapons that look like nodachi-length baseball bats somewhat)
 * Bōjutsu (art of using a staff)
 * Nunchakudo (art of using nunchakus; might be stretching the swordstyle concept alittle, but works still)
 * Kyūdō ("way of the bow"; for someone using this, might I suggest using the idea of a Quincy who died, and when they became a Hollow (since a Quincy is human, and when they die, they could become Hollows), and eventually Arrancar, their power is sealed in the form of a bow; you could actually have someone use this, and make it work like Starrk's gun Cero)

--Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity 20:24, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Quite the amazing idea, and it sure beats the whole "Aspect of Death" system, which is largely useless and serves no practical purpose at all, other than to simply classify them. Kyūdō is especially good, and I'm tempted to use it on my own Espada, Alejandro Nuevo given that his Resurecciòn form makes normal battle almost hopeless. Njalm2 20:46, May 24, 2011 (UTC)

Well my vote is for this as well so I guess unless we Ken, Lone, Fire, and Kou all disagree with me then this i what we will be going with. =) Hmm I'm interested in the spear (obviously) and Fencing. Hahaha I'm guessing Ken will probably choose Kendo. =P <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  21:01, May 24, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm in full support of this, but, sadly, my only arrancar, Tsukai no Yumeuranai, is a former Espada. Oh well. Can't wait to see what all you guys come up with(:


 * Thanks a bunch for the ideas, Sei :) I'm up for this, so I say run with it. Now, because I like Kou so much and hate to see him missing out, how about we expand this concept to previous members of the Espada as well? For all we know, the previous members of the Espada could've had aspects of death, so with Sei's idea in play, not a specialized weapon form as well? But Kendō, Raze? Maybe, but I think I'll run with the Eskrima style for my new Sexta instead. Anyways, if anyones looking a few more ideas, these are just weapon forms I've found flicking through the internet. Some are just extensions of swordsmanship, though, but could be used exclusively by any character.


 * Jōhyō (art of using a rope dart or rope javelin)
 * Sansetsukon (a three sectional staff)
 * Half-sword (another fencing style that focuses mainly on piercing heavy armor. Perfect for hitting hardened defenses or Kidō barriers)
 * Maai (the art of keeping a certain distance between you and your opponent)

-- <font color="FireBrick">Kenji-Taichō <font color="FireBrick">(Talk)  09:55, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

I love it. Even though I don't have an Espada, nor do I have the drive to make one at this time, I endorse such an idea. User:Firegod00 (Say your prayers) 23:06, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Resurecciòn Types
Alright, since we've pretty much cleared the whole Specialization aspect, why not begin to move our heads in the direction of applying types to the Resurecciòns, as opposed to simply the Zanpakuto of Shinigami, this is an original idea of Illuminate Voids and one I think we should potentially expand somewhat upon, though I personally believe the categories to be abit less broad than their Shinigami counterparts. I've come up with the following examples, of what I believe they could be.

Elemental-Type: Pretty self explanationary, really - this would cover all Resurecciòns which deal primarily with an element, without nessecarily changing themselves too greatly in the process, the most obvious example would be, as she gains great control over the Element of water while still remaining largely humanoid in appearance. The second example would be due to his great ability to manipulate Wind, while still remaining humanoid.

Shapeshifting-Type: While all Resurecciòns are technically Shapeshiftings in and of themselves, this type would in my opinion more or less apply to those releases which largely increased the Arrancars physical capabilities, Reiatsu included, as opposed to the Elemental-Type which would largely demand long-distance battles; these releases would thus in my opinion rely more on physical combat of different kinds, while granting them only a small amount of special abilities. Examples would include and, as both of their releases depend very much upon their physical capabilities and raises their levels of such to great heights, while only really giving them a couple of extra special abilities, enhanced Cero's excluded.

Special-Type: Abit more of an ambigeous type, really. Special-Type would basically be that which doesn't fit into either of the aforementioned categories - these types may or may not give the Arrancar a wide assortment of abilities and they may or may not drastically change upon release. would for example definately fit into this category, given how unique his Resurecciòn is as opposed to the others. Other examples would include, and quite possibly.

Please leave feedback and such, relating to possibly new types, sub-types etc or other suggestions.

Njalm2 11:58, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm...personally, I think its a good idea though its unneeded. Once you think about it, Starrk could also fall under Shapeshifting type as he changes form, gains augmented speed and durability and an enhanced Cero. As for the elemental-type, well that would just be pointless to mention as I'm pretty sure no one would get confuse fire spewing weapon for a earth or water type. You see what I mean? <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  19:06, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well, perhaps it is unneeded, but then again the same thing applies for Zanpakuto Types as well, everyone can tell two different elements apart, that is the basics of logic! And I think you've misunderstood what I meant by Shapeshifting; Starrk doesn't change "form" he changes clothes, and his physique and body remains largely the same. Grimmjow on the other hand, undergoes great transformation, involving cat-like legs with paws, elongated theeth, longer hair and a tail. Ulquiorra, while not really that different in his initial release, besides the addition of wings and longer hair changes tremendously upon entering his second one, he gains a long tail, horns and his wings change as well, his body also becomes covered in black fur. So yeah, there is a vast difference between Starrk and the Shapeshifting Arrancar :P Njalm2 20:13, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Well with zanpakuto types there is a much larger difference. I mean there are Melee, Kido, and elemental. Those aren't really capable of being confused. In kido there are the different subtypes such as defense, poison, illusion, etc. Those are mainly there because no two shinigami really have the same zanpakuto except for a few rare cases. But if you look at hollows, they can have the same abilities and no one lifts an eyebrow about it. Like Harribel and that crab-like guy that Shusei faught against (can't remember his name =p) They both pretty much used the same ability except Harribel's weapon didn't have an opening. Hmm I hope what I'm trying to say is coming across..but mentioning the second stage...wouldn't that also put Ulquiorra in the special category seeing as he is the only one capable of entering the second stage? Hmm...I'm really confused by this whole prospect as I don't find it really needed at all as long as no one just goes and C/P the abilities from someone else's characters. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  20:27, May 25, 2011 (UTC)

Ambigeous Powers
Alright, I've recently read that in his databook "MASKED" Tite Kubo confirmed that Espada are indeed ranked according to their Spiritual Power in their base forms, this in my opinion seems to provide the possibility that lower ranked Espada not nessecarily needs to be weaker than the higher ranking ones, in fact. Concidering how our Espada have been accomplished I'd say that most of the Espada are quite close in terms of power, but for different reasons. Feel free to agree or disagree here though.

Njalm2 12:20, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well given from what we've seen from canon, Ulquiorra was certaintly stronger imho than the top three Espada in his Segunda Espada. But I agree, and its the tone I've taken when creating my Espada, although for different reasons that just having seemingly lower spiritual power in his base form. But where did you find a translation? --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 17:11, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I just wanna say that, Ulquiorra said that Aizen didn't know about his second release. When Aizen organized the Espada numbers, he couldn't take the second release into account, since he didn't know about it. Just thought I'd throw that in there. --Seireitou-shishō [[File:Seireitou's signature picture.jpg]] (My True Identity 17:21, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yea....I think that if Aizen knew about it, Ulquiorra would have been ranked 1 if not 0. Honestly, I think that the ranking is incredibly important. If you stop and think about it, the ranking shows exactly how powerful each of the Espada are. Ok for example, 10 was considered the lowest as Yammy was "handled" in his unreleased state by Uryu...I'll continue the rest of that argument in a moment because I want to go up the chart. Rank 9 was defeated by Rukia who may not be the strongest shinigami but has quite the ingenious tactics when fighting. Skipping along...to rank 6, Grimmjow had to fight Ichigo (enhanced with a hollow and in bankai) and still wasnt killed..just knocked to the side by Nnoitra, who just happened to only be beaten by Zaraki after removing his limiter and using a specialized fighting technique. Number 3, Harribel. She fought against one of supposed "stronger captains" Hitsugaya, and even when he released one of if not his strongest technique she came out of it and wasn't killed until Aizen actually finished her. Number 2, Barragan..well first he took on Soifon and her lieuteneant by himself, then they added in Hachi and he still managed to hold his own in the fight before having to be sealed away. (By my count, he did more damage to those 3) As it was his own powers that actually killed him. Number 1, Starrk, Well...it took two captains to take him down and even with that one was barely able to hold on before being incapacitated by an outside force. And the other received some pretty serious wounds during their fight. Not to mention that Starrk didn't "get serious" for alot of the fight as he was waiting to see Kyoraku's bankai. And finally back to Yammy...well number 0. Well it took Kenpachi AND Byakuya to defeat him. That in itself is impressive as he managed to stand up t both of them who have proven on several accounts to be incredibly powerful warriors. Though we didn't get a chance to sea the actually fight all three were battered at the end so it could be assumed that the fight was quite rigorous. I hope my argument here proves why the numbers actually do show importance when it comes to showing the strength of each espada. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  17:41, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit: I was mistaken when I said it took two to be Starkk, in actuality it took 4. Just thought I would clear that up.<font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  21:40, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I want to say a few things. In the "MASKED" Tite Kubo does confirmed that the Espada are ranked one through ten, by the strength of their Reiatsu and overall powers of their post release forms. Interms of zero through nine that is after their releases and remember Ulquiorra was the only one to achieve a second release form thus make him maybe able to fight against Starrk and Yammy in their release forms. Ulquiorra states that Aizen had never "seen" his Segunda Etapa so he couldn't know how strong he is in that release state. As well Yammy is able to store spirit energy by eating and sleeping for his release form. So in theory the longer he does this the stronger he is once released. Each Espada noramlly have one skill that he/she is the strongest or best among each other. Like the former canon 5th Espada's skin was the most hardest at least by his claim.: The Twilight of Your Despair 21:25, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * I want to say a few things. In the "MASKED" Tite Kubo does confirmed that the Espada are ranked one through ten, by the strength of their Reiatsu and overall powers of their post release forms. Interms of zero through nine that is after their releases and remember Ulquiorra was the only one to achieve a second release form thus make him maybe able to fight against Starrk and Yammy in their release forms. Ulquiorra states that Aizen had never "seen" his Segunda Etapa so he couldn't know how strong he is in that release state. As well Yammy is able to store spirit energy by eating and sleeping for his release form. So in theory the longer he does this the stronger he is once released. Each Espada noramlly have one skill that he/she is the strongest or best among each other. Like the former canon 5th Espada's skin was the most hardest at least by his claim.: The Twilight of Your Despair 21:25, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

I've largely ignored the limitation of an Espada only having one skill, as in the wiki it specifically states in the Hollow entry that among their signature skills is "Unique Individual Powers & Abilities". I think its kinda sad that more Hollows let alone Arrancar dont have such unique skill sets. Its the route I'm going for my own character Treize. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 21:34, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Its one thing to give them unique skills is one thing but when we start piling on special abilities that is what makes them no longer hollows. Its the way hollows adapt to having only their one ability that make them so unique. Look at Grimmjow. He primarily uses brute force and then his teeth and claws from when he was a Adjuchas to fight with. He didn't have a gajillion "unique" aspects to him and neither did Ulquiorra. And personally I don't think he was the only one to reach segunda etapa. If you think about it, its not as if the Espada were all best friends, heck they have no qualms with hurting each other. So why would they share each of their secrets? Maybe some of the other in the top were capable of reaching Segunda as well while Uluiorra didn't even know that they were.<font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  21:46, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

I go by the canon on these kind of topics. Other than the 9th, and 2th Espada, not many have that many unique special post release powers. And then theirs weren't that many.: The Twilight of Your Despair 21:49, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well, what Grimmjow did was fine but he was quite the generalized combatant, what really set him apart was his personality - while he appeared really violent and ruthless, Tite Kubo used his ingeniusty to gradually begin to reveal a "Hidden" Grimmjow, which was likely the reason he was so well-received by Bleach Fans; but that is irrelevant in this discussion.

The fact is, Grimmjows abilities were not what set him apart, as he was very general. When we think of the abilities of the Espada our thoughts usually go to Arroniero, Barragan, Ulquiorra and Starrk all of whom possessed abilities besides the norm. Having 10 Espada, or in this case 11 whom all have pretty much the same abilities except for different levels of skill and general power is both boring, and serves to act as a restriction to our imagination.

Treize, Alejandro, and Custodio all have abilities besides the norm, the result being that they're likely to develop into successful articles and characters; while I'm not saying that those whom stay true to the canon won't achieve the same ends. My bottom line is, that originality is one of Fanfictions greatest virtues, and thus should be expanded upon. And indeed, many note worthy Hollows in the series do possess abilities whom are highly unique.

Njalm2 22:15, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Quick thorn in the argument here but you just said Grimmjow was generalized and what set him apart was his personality. Yet then you say the other who have assorted abilities will be the ones to be successful (before adding the not so hidden attempt to not hurt anyone's feelings) Hmm...the two statements sort of contrast ach other. Hmm...well the espada are meant to be just that...espada. upper tier Hollows. They arent supposed to be these tanks full of various abilities. I'm not saying you guys cant, just keep it in mind and dont take it too far with giving them abilities and such. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  22:34, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Well I gave my character Custodo mental/psychic based powers as well the strongest Pesquisa at least in claim like with Nnoitra's skin. I need to make things with normal bleach like themes at least once inwhile. And his unique powers will be limited to only a few and his release states as I will give my character the Segunda Etapa release will mainly enhanced his spiritual powers his current mental powers as well as bestow one or two more powerful ones. This prevents ones from making their character too strong.: The Twilight of Your Despair 22:42, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Segunda Etapa
Hmm...after Twi's last post a good question struck me. Is everyone going to be making a Segunda Etapa for their Espada? I think maybe 1-2 (maybe 3 depending on the reasoning) should have it at most. And so far Td5 has one slot unless anyone opposes as we can put it to a vote or such as to who gets it to be fair. I for one wont be using it. But I figured I would bring it to everyone's attention before there are 9 Aizen-type weapons floating about. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  22:47, May 29, 2011 (UTC)


 * Personally, I find the Segunda Etapa to be highly overrated. But, anyone that knows me well know that I loathe more than one enhancement in power (which is why I detest bankai so much). If anything, I think the only character that should have Segunda Etapa should be the Cero Espada, since rank is important. I also consider this generation of Espada to be more closely-knit compared to the original Espada, so they wouldn't hide their power like the latter. However, that's just my two cents on the subject.
 * Maybe I should have asked first. I am just giving it as my character is a Vasto Lorde Hollow then Arrancar and my Espada is the first character to be a part of a group not a former member like with Haku Nakamaru in the other groups. But how about this to make the Segunda Etapa you need two votes after the first three users claim it. This way its fair for the first come first serve rule and for possible more combacts with it. So that is is limited but not set a a unchangable number of slots. Inshort after the first three claim it than you new characters need at least two votes to gain one. Also it has to be well written and limited with enhancements, and extra powers.: The Twilight of Your Despair 23:00, May 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe I should have asked first. I am just giving it as my character is a Vasto Lorde Hollow then Arrancar and my Espada is the first character to be a part of a group not a former member like with Haku Nakamaru in the other groups. But how about this to make the Segunda Etapa you need two votes after the first three users claim it. This way its fair for the first come first serve rule and for possible more combacts with it. So that is is limited but not set a a unchangable number of slots. Inshort after the first three claim it than you new characters need at least two votes to gain one. Also it has to be well written and limited with enhancements, and extra powers.: The Twilight of Your Despair 23:00, May 29, 2011 (UTC)

Characters with Segunda Etapa Release
As to prevent spamming of the Arrancar's Segunda Etapa. There will be three open slots. After the third slot is filled than, you need at least two votes. Also one must be from one of the foundation members of the Gravity Force.: The Twilight of Your Despair 18:42, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Myself Twilight Desapir 5. (Pending votes)
 * 2) Unknowm
 * 3) Unknown

I suggest you need at least two votes to even fill one of these spots, is fairer that way as well as more logical and positive, as then people acknowledge you to desserve it, other than to simply "snatch" a spot, without allowing anyone to interject, doesn't that sound palpable? Njalm2 18:47, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * This will be changed to majority vote

, even before "first come first serve." There should only be one or two, max, that can use Segunda Etapa, and that should be the Cero and Primera Espada, as they are the strongest.

Raze already kind of gave me a slot it as I said it in another topic on this page after I brought it up. And he brought up the issue so I made this topic to where others at least can get a chance. Fist come first serve rule I guess. Besides this way its limited but not a set number.: The Twilight of Your Despair 18:53, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

That is bias and unfair. As then only those who get those slots and the like get those rights.: The Twilight of Your Despair 19:09, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Concerns with Segunda Etapa
That is most certainly not unfair, nor bias. I, if you haven't seen my rant above, hate Segunda Etapa, so I wouldn't even use it. And it that is how the Espada work. Your number is how strong you are compared the the rest of the Espada, as such, the Cero and Primera are the two strongest, so Segunda Etapa goes to them. Plus, this is much like the quadrumvirate: only characters of the highest quality should be able to get the ability to use Segunda Etapa. And bias? Like I said before, I don't even like it, so I wouldn't even use it. However, the first part of what I said still stands: there is no "first come, first serve." You must obtain majority vote from the other members, and two of those votes must be founders. You don't have to be one of the top three Espada, but you should have an article of the highest quality. As a partial-founder, that is the rule from now on (that means Despair can still keep his Segunda Etapa).

Why would the strongest espada get Segunda Etapa wouldn't that only make them stronger which Kou would hate even more. And besides remember Yammy he was the weakest but his release makes him the strongest. Giving the cero and primera espada segunda etapa would further the gap between the espada strength way too much. Plus I don't want Segunda Etapa but I do agree with the majority vote rule just so things are more fair than first come first serve. --- <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">Twon Junior <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">(the Third)  19:30, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Sounds highly reasonable, and yes, I too view this much in the manner as the Quadrumvirate; much due to the fact that from what we've seen in the series thus far, Segunda Etapa is much stronger than a Bankai. Ichigo was completely and utterly demolished by Ulquiorra (Even in his regular Ressurecciòn state) - I think that it should be limited to those Espada whose Resurecciòns imply the most improvement possibility, if we give a Cero or Primera a Segunda Etapa they'd easily be on par with some of the weaker Quadrumvirate, which is really bad in my opinion. Njalm2 19:35, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

You should check out the Ulquiorra Cifer's Segunda Etapa on the canon wiki.: The Twilight of Your Despair 19:49, May 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Overwhelming Reiatsu: Ulquiorra's already-immense spiritual power significantly changes its Reiatsu's nature upon entering his second stage. Even being within the vicinity of his release instills despair on those who can sense it. Uryū Ishida, a Quincy who is an expert at sensing reiatsu, noted that the density of Ulquiorra's spiritual power was so vast that it could hardly be identified as reiatsu. "It's like no spiritual energy I've ever felt before...It's not just bigger or stronger. It's too dense and heavy to even be called spiritual energy. It feels like there's an ocean above the sky..." (It should be noted that Ishida was describing its nature not its level of power).

We're not saying that Segunda Etapa is weak in any way I'm just saying that why would the cero and primera espada get Segunda Etapa if they are already so powerful. Plus Uryu really isn't that strong I doubt he could feel Ulqiourra Spiritual energy in the first place lol. No disrespct to quinces thought :) --- <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">Twon Junior <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">(the Third)  19:51, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Ok here's the deal Twillight I did not say you could just have a spot. I said if no one objected to it then you could so you have to clarify that with EVERYONE as if people don't want you to have one then that's that. You already on a probation period atm. SO yea, next topic. Determining who gets it. Well, I decided a fair way to see who gets it. As I've been looking at the Espada so far, most characters hae a plethora of abilities to choose from and so in my sense, I decided that if you want a Segunda Etapa then your character cant have more than the basic abilities with maybe 1 or 2 enhancements. And yes TJr...there would be a significant increase in difference between the strength of the Espada, thats the whole point of it. And Yes, they could become as powerful as a member of the Quadrumvirate, even more powerful than the strongest member if it is explained correctly as they aren't the top of threshold, if I sound rude then I apoligize, I just want this whole ridiculous thing to be over with. If there's a problem, you know where to find my talk page. Cheers. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  20:02, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Might I warn everyone to not take this out of proportions than it already is. Remember what Sei said? Just giving my two cents here.

I am being the better person. So I give up my Segunda Etapa character slot. There now lets end this without this getting worse.: The Twilight of Your Despair 20:11, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

There is no "better person" here. Everyone voiced their concerns and as such this is what it comes to. <font color="#0255255" face="Tahoma">Raze <font color="#0191255" face="Tahoma">Kucabara-Dono  <font color="#2550255" face="Tahoma">Light  20:13, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

If the following parties are interested, you have my vote on adding a Segunda Etapa to your character; Twonjr and Another Poetic Spartan. Both of you have done a great job in the articles you've created thus far, and if you'd like to, you have my support for Segunda Etapa. --- Illuminate Void (Talk) 20:15, May 30, 2011 (UTC)

Thanks but I'm not interested mostly because it takes me awhile to come up with good Resurreccion powers lol. But thanks anyway pal. --- <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">Twon Junior <font color="#FFFFFF" face="Comic Sans MS">(the Third)  20:16, May 30, 2011 (UTC)